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	<title>Comments on: DNC Change Commission #1 – Timing of primaries and caucuses</title>
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		<title>By: DemRulz</title>
		<link>http://demrulz.org/?p=1198&#038;cpage=1#comment-426</link>
		<dc:creator>DemRulz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 14:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://demrulz.org/?p=1198#comment-426</guid>
		<description>Thanks - I&#039;ve made those corrections.  26 was the number of primaries, but 37 was the number total.  The DNC rules have forbidden the first step of any process that elects delegates from occuring outside the window, so although the GOP did not penalize Iowa under its rules, the DNC would have, if it had not given Iowa an exception.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks &#8211; I&#8217;ve made those corrections.  26 was the number of primaries, but 37 was the number total.  The DNC rules have forbidden the first step of any process that elects delegates from occuring outside the window, so although the GOP did not penalize Iowa under its rules, the DNC would have, if it had not given Iowa an exception.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward C. Martin</title>
		<link>http://demrulz.org/?p=1198&#038;cpage=1#comment-422</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward C. Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://demrulz.org/?p=1198#comment-422</guid>
		<description>This can become real tricky. Regional groupings like the &quot;Potomac Primary&quot; makes sense. Candidates can focus on a section of the country at one time and cut down on expenses if they don&#039;t have to criss-cross the country all the time. Possible downside... which regions go first? One region could push their &quot;favorite son&quot; to the head of the pack at the expense of a more qualified and electable candidate. Florida has a lot of retirees from New York; an arguement could be made that they could be grouped together as a &quot;region&quot;. 
Whatever changes and rules get set, they must be enforced. 2008 set a bad precedent, the threat of being stripped of delegates must be real. And the candidates themselves need to make the point to the state comittees that it doesn&#039;t help them if they win a state but don&#039;t get the delegates.
Working with the RNC... good luck, but try to eliminate &quot;open&quot; primaries. Think of it like sports play-offs. Would the Cowboys allow the Giants to field the offense and defense? A person only gets to play(vote) for the team to which they are registered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This can become real tricky. Regional groupings like the &#8220;Potomac Primary&#8221; makes sense. Candidates can focus on a section of the country at one time and cut down on expenses if they don&#8217;t have to criss-cross the country all the time. Possible downside&#8230; which regions go first? One region could push their &#8220;favorite son&#8221; to the head of the pack at the expense of a more qualified and electable candidate. Florida has a lot of retirees from New York; an arguement could be made that they could be grouped together as a &#8220;region&#8221;.<br />
Whatever changes and rules get set, they must be enforced. 2008 set a bad precedent, the threat of being stripped of delegates must be real. And the candidates themselves need to make the point to the state comittees that it doesn&#8217;t help them if they win a state but don&#8217;t get the delegates.<br />
Working with the RNC&#8230; good luck, but try to eliminate &#8220;open&#8221; primaries. Think of it like sports play-offs. Would the Cowboys allow the Giants to field the offense and defense? A person only gets to play(vote) for the team to which they are registered.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Putnam</title>
		<link>http://demrulz.org/?p=1198&#038;cpage=1#comment-421</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Putnam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 15:51:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://demrulz.org/?p=1198#comment-421</guid>
		<description>This is a great overview of many of the main points, Frank.  Thanks.

From a pragmatic standpoint, closing the window in which delegate selection contests can be held is probably the mostly easily attainable goal.  One thing that I haven&#039;t seen discussed anywhere is that this first week in March mandate by the DNC (from last year&#039;s convention) is basically reversing the party&#039;s actions ahead of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://frontloading.blogspot.com/2009/03/2004-presidential-primary-calendar.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;2004&lt;/a&gt; campaign -- when February contests were allowed for the first time.  Now granted, we need to provide some context there.  The RNC had over the course of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://frontloading.blogspot.com/2009/02/1996-presidential-primary-calendar.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;1996&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://frontloading.blogspot.com/2009/03/2000-presidential-primary-calendar.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;2000&lt;/a&gt; cycles opened their window to include February primaries and caucuses.  The DNC&#039;s move in 2004, then, was simply a reaction to that.  But both parties have reaped what they sowed over the last 10-15 years.  

The Change Commission, provided the mandate called for in the rules, will likely move forward with March beginning point for all non-exempt states (all except IA, NH, NV, SC). How big a problem will the DNC have with compliance if they don&#039;t hammer out some sort of compromise with the RNC on this point?  You mentioned the conflict in Virginia, but &lt;a href=&quot;http://frontloading.blogspot.com/2009/10/why-democratic-change-commissions-march.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;what other states fall into that same or a similar category&lt;/a&gt;?  Currently, there are eight states that would potentially stand as obstacles to any action by the DNC not matched by the Republican Party.  That is a significant potential roadblock and on something that seems rather a simple change on its face.  

The initial frontloading moves in the 1996-2008 period were easy.  There has always been an incentive to move forward, but getting states to move back when others will be allowed to stay where they are, it certainly easier said than done.  [And I&#039;m not saying you&#039;ve said it will be easy.]  What are the carrots?  What are the sticks?  You&#039;ve got them laid out here, but I have one thing to add to your Florida/Michigan penalty point.  The DNC rule initially was exactly like the RNC&#039;s (a 50% delegate loss) in terms of the states (The DNC added an extra penalty to candidates campaigning in those states that the RNC didn&#039;t have.).  When Florida changed their date, the Rules and Bylaws Committee decided to make an example of them (one that was so effective Michigan ignored it) by stripping the state of all of its delegates.  The problem wasn&#039;t the stripping of all of Michigan&#039;s or Florida&#039;s delegates, but the midstream rules changing that took place (50% reduction to 100% loss to the allowance of a full delegation).  

Oh, and I count &lt;a href=&quot;http://frontloading.blogspot.com/2009/03/2008-presidential-primary-calendar.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;37 states&lt;/a&gt; that had contests before March 1 in 2008.  But that&#039;s just nitpicky.

I agree with you on your point about congressional intervention -- they&#039;re sidetracked -- but for a wider discussion of whether Congress even has the ability to intervene see Dan Lowenstein&#039;s chapter (or an abstract of it) &lt;a href=&quot;http://frontloading.blogspot.com/2008/07/frontloading-under-fire-part-ii.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks again, Frank. Great post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great overview of many of the main points, Frank.  Thanks.</p>
<p>From a pragmatic standpoint, closing the window in which delegate selection contests can be held is probably the mostly easily attainable goal.  One thing that I haven&#8217;t seen discussed anywhere is that this first week in March mandate by the DNC (from last year&#8217;s convention) is basically reversing the party&#8217;s actions ahead of the <a href="http://frontloading.blogspot.com/2009/03/2004-presidential-primary-calendar.html" rel="nofollow">2004</a> campaign &#8212; when February contests were allowed for the first time.  Now granted, we need to provide some context there.  The RNC had over the course of the <a href="http://frontloading.blogspot.com/2009/02/1996-presidential-primary-calendar.html" rel="nofollow">1996</a> and <a href="http://frontloading.blogspot.com/2009/03/2000-presidential-primary-calendar.html" rel="nofollow">2000</a> cycles opened their window to include February primaries and caucuses.  The DNC&#8217;s move in 2004, then, was simply a reaction to that.  But both parties have reaped what they sowed over the last 10-15 years.  </p>
<p>The Change Commission, provided the mandate called for in the rules, will likely move forward with March beginning point for all non-exempt states (all except IA, NH, NV, SC). How big a problem will the DNC have with compliance if they don&#8217;t hammer out some sort of compromise with the RNC on this point?  You mentioned the conflict in Virginia, but <a href="http://frontloading.blogspot.com/2009/10/why-democratic-change-commissions-march.html" rel="nofollow">what other states fall into that same or a similar category</a>?  Currently, there are eight states that would potentially stand as obstacles to any action by the DNC not matched by the Republican Party.  That is a significant potential roadblock and on something that seems rather a simple change on its face.  </p>
<p>The initial frontloading moves in the 1996-2008 period were easy.  There has always been an incentive to move forward, but getting states to move back when others will be allowed to stay where they are, it certainly easier said than done.  [And I'm not saying you've said it will be easy.]  What are the carrots?  What are the sticks?  You&#8217;ve got them laid out here, but I have one thing to add to your Florida/Michigan penalty point.  The DNC rule initially was exactly like the RNC&#8217;s (a 50% delegate loss) in terms of the states (The DNC added an extra penalty to candidates campaigning in those states that the RNC didn&#8217;t have.).  When Florida changed their date, the Rules and Bylaws Committee decided to make an example of them (one that was so effective Michigan ignored it) by stripping the state of all of its delegates.  The problem wasn&#8217;t the stripping of all of Michigan&#8217;s or Florida&#8217;s delegates, but the midstream rules changing that took place (50% reduction to 100% loss to the allowance of a full delegation).  </p>
<p>Oh, and I count <a href="http://frontloading.blogspot.com/2009/03/2008-presidential-primary-calendar.html" rel="nofollow">37 states</a> that had contests before March 1 in 2008.  But that&#8217;s just nitpicky.</p>
<p>I agree with you on your point about congressional intervention &#8212; they&#8217;re sidetracked &#8212; but for a wider discussion of whether Congress even has the ability to intervene see Dan Lowenstein&#8217;s chapter (or an abstract of it) <a href="http://frontloading.blogspot.com/2008/07/frontloading-under-fire-part-ii.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks again, Frank. Great post.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Roza</title>
		<link>http://demrulz.org/?p=1198&#038;cpage=1#comment-420</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Roza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 15:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://demrulz.org/?p=1198#comment-420</guid>
		<description>You wrote &quot;The RNC ... took away half the delegates (including in NH and Iowa)...&quot;. The RNC did not penalize Iowa. Florida, Michigan, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Wyoming received a 50% penalty for violating Republican Party Rule Number 16. That rule states that the process of selecting National Convention Delegates must not begin before Tuesday February 5, 2008. 

Prior to February 5, 2008, West Virginia, Iowa, Nevada, Louisiana, Hawaii, and Maine elected delegates to the next step. However, no penalties were applied since no National Convention Delegates were actually allocated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You wrote &#8220;The RNC &#8230; took away half the delegates (including in NH and Iowa)&#8230;&#8221;. The RNC did not penalize Iowa. Florida, Michigan, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Wyoming received a 50% penalty for violating Republican Party Rule Number 16. That rule states that the process of selecting National Convention Delegates must not begin before Tuesday February 5, 2008. </p>
<p>Prior to February 5, 2008, West Virginia, Iowa, Nevada, Louisiana, Hawaii, and Maine elected delegates to the next step. However, no penalties were applied since no National Convention Delegates were actually allocated.</p>
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